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Old 03-25-2012, 09:56 PM   #21
Chris Mason
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Re: Choosing the best strength program

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Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
Chris--
A bit of a threadjack, but I remember seeing John Welbourn post this link awhile back and wanted to get your thoughts on it:

http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/20...ms-with-batson (WFS)
It's complete b.s....

First, the idea O-lifts work more fast twitch fibers is wrong. Second, the idea that O-lifts somehow translate better to the field of play is also wrong. Strength training should be used to increase the absolute force production capacity of the involved musculature and sport specific training to translate that increased capacity. The powerlifts via their nature are simply better because they require a decreased skill component relative to O-lifts and they allow for greater loading over the ROM.

Food for thought, why are powerlifts such a front and back squatting of benefit to the Olypic lifts?

I'll get a bit more into this tomorrow.
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:09 AM   #22
Frances Ballesteros
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Re: Choosing the best strength program

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Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Actually, you can keep your conditioning with 2 WODs per week.

In terms of best strength program why not look at Westside? It truly is a superior program.
Why? I'd venture to say there are some really strong men and women who don't follow Westside.
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:26 AM   #23
Rick Scarpulla
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Re: Choosing the best strength program

I also read the article posted above and agree there are people who have gotten strong using many different methods. That does not mean it was the most efficent path possible. I work with athletes of all sports including football and work with many top colleges and coaches across the country.

The main reason I am a solid Westside follower is that Lous methods will make you stronger- faster then any other program. In most cases you have time windows in which the focus is strength with athletes. The NCAA only allows so much time with players during these times.

For instance in football you have from Sep thru mid Nov. is in-season. (longer if you make a bowl) then mid-terms and Christmas break so that leaves Jan thru March to train -then Feb and March it is spring ball, then exams spring break and then in May comes the end of the school year and you begin summer programs with the athletes. That phase is mid May thru July. Most programs begin practice around Aug 7-13 depending on NCAA div.

That does not leave you a tremendous amount of time to waste finding out how to best program your players for strength and speed and GPP. More and more programs are switching to conjugate methods because they work quickly. I also ask if the Oly based programs are superior then why do almost all pros Not use them when many infact use Westside.

Time is a precious commodity in our world many here also have time constraints in which to work. You can do Westside and still use Oly lifts in your routine The CFers that have been working with me do it and are making great gains.

That is what Westside is all about learning what you need to do to improve yourself as your needs are different then mine and Ultimate Advantage has taken those methods one step further and applied those methods to many skill sports as well as CF. Westside methods will get you the fastest results.

Last edited by Rick Scarpulla : 03-26-2012 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 03-26-2012, 02:08 PM   #24
Kent Newland
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Re: Choosing the best strength program

Just to throw my .02 in on the Westside conversation:

I put 60 pounds on my squat over the last year, from 345 to 405, using the Westside method. I didn't even follow it religiously, because I've been deployed and training. Take off time for when I didn't have access to a weight room or squat rack, and that's 60 pounds in about 9-10 months. I'm not certain, but I think that's pretty significant. I think I've put about 90 pounds on my deadlift the same way, but I haven't tracked that as religiously as I've tracked my squat, because I've been focused primarily on breaking the 400 pound barrier. I don't even consider 400 that much for my weight of 250, but it was a goal I set and I hit. My next goal is 500 on the deadlift, and then I'm looking at 350 on the bench. I will use the Westside method because I've seen that it works. The science backs it up, and my results back it up.

The reason that I haven't been able to follow the program religiously is because I don't always have time to get in the accessory lifts. Also, some weeks I'm feeling really good so I may go heavy (90% of 1RM) twice or more in the same week. I imagine if I had the equipment available to be able to do reverse hypers, as well as the GHRs, I'd be able to rock even more. But I feel like I'm not doing too badly with what I've got right now.

Westside works. No doubt about it.

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Old 03-26-2012, 06:33 PM   #25
Chris Mason
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Re: Choosing the best strength program

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Originally Posted by Frances Ballesteros View Post
Why? I'd venture to say there are some really strong men and women who don't follow Westside.
Lol, because his gym has more all-time and world records than any other. I know, I know, the proof isn't in the pudding and that doesn't mean anything...

Yes, of course there is more than one way to get strong, but Louie's methods are the most effective I have ever seen or tried and I have seen or tried a lot.
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:37 PM   #26
Chris Mason
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Re: Choosing the best strength program

Triple post...

Last edited by Chris Mason : 03-26-2012 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:06 PM   #27
Chris Mason
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Re: Choosing the best strength program

Double post...
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:24 PM   #28
Lucas King
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Re: Choosing the best strength program

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Originally Posted by Rick Scarpulla View Post
I also read the article posted above and agree there are people who have gotten strong using many different methods. That does not mean it was the most efficent path possible. I work with athletes of all sports including football and work with many top colleges and coaches across the country.

The main reason I am a solid Westside follower is that Lous methods will make you stronger- faster then any other program. In most cases you have time windows in which the focus is strength with athletes. The NCAA only allows so much time with players during these times.

For instance in football you have from Sep thru mid Nov. is in-season. (longer if you make a bowl) then mid-terms and Christmas break so that leaves Jan thru March to train -then Feb and March it is spring ball, then exams spring break and then in May comes the end of the school year and you begin summer programs with the athletes. That phase is mid May thru July. Most programs begin practice around Aug 7-13 depending on NCAA div.

That does not leave you a tremendous amount of time to waste finding out how to best program your players for strength and speed and GPP. More and more programs are switching to conjugate methods because they work quickly. I also ask if the Oly based programs are superior then why do almost all pros Not use them when many infact use Westside.

Time is a precious commodity in our world many here also have time constraints in which to work. You can do Westside and still use Oly lifts in your routine The CFers that have been working with me do it and are making great gains.

That is what Westside is all about learning what you need to do to improve yourself as your needs are different then mine and Ultimate Advantage has taken those methods one step further and applied those methods to many skill sports as well as CF. Westside methods will get you the fastest results.
How do you usually incorporate the Oly Lifts? I love westside style programming just need to Oly lift too, I do a lot of Oly competitions as well.
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Old 03-26-2012, 08:03 PM   #29
Michael R. Miller
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Re: Choosing the best strength program

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Originally Posted by Rick Scarpulla View Post
I also read the article posted above and agree there are people who have gotten strong using many different methods. That does not mean it was the most efficent path possible. I work with athletes of all sports including football and work with many top colleges and coaches across the country.

The main reason I am a solid Westside follower is that Lous methods will make you stronger- faster then any other program. In most cases you have time windows in which the focus is strength with athletes. The NCAA only allows so much time with players during these times.

For instance in football you have from Sep thru mid Nov. is in-season. (longer if you make a bowl) then mid-terms and Christmas break so that leaves Jan thru March to train -then Feb and March it is spring ball, then exams spring break and then in May comes the end of the school year and you begin summer programs with the athletes. That phase is mid May thru July. Most programs begin practice around Aug 7-13 depending on NCAA div.

That does not leave you a tremendous amount of time to waste finding out how to best program your players for strength and speed and GPP. More and more programs are switching to conjugate methods because they work quickly. I also ask if the Oly based programs are superior then why do almost all pros Not use them when many infact use Westside.

Time is a precious commodity in our world many here also have time constraints in which to work. You can do Westside and still use Oly lifts in your routine The CFers that have been working with me do it and are making great gains.

That is what Westside is all about learning what you need to do to improve yourself as your needs are different then mine and Ultimate Advantage has taken those methods one step further and applied those methods to many skill sports as well as CF. Westside methods will get you the fastest results.
I agree with you to some extent. DeFranco touches on this a bit with training economy as his reason for not teaching the O-lifts and he is a huge westside advocate.

Say you have 10$ to spend. How would you spend it? 8 on strength or 8 on O-lift technique.

But the thing is in CrossFit to be competitive these days you need at least a 300lb clean and at least 225 snatch. While squatting over 400 and pulling 500 or more. So we can't just ignore them and doing just westside may not give us that without some O-lift thrown in once or twice a week.
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Old 03-26-2012, 08:39 PM   #30
Chris Mason
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Re: Choosing the best strength program

Right, so someone like you would then want to incorporate the O-lifts.
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