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Old 03-31-2014, 12:11 PM   #31
Luke Sirakos
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Re: Strength Program or CF or Both?

Jose, that was a great post. I definitely agree with the asking questions for reassurance vs answers and I know I have been guilty of that plenty of times myself in the past.

If you want to get stronger you have to be able to recover and that includes your CNS. If I was the OP and wanted to increase my strength numbers I would not workout two days in a row and certainly not two times in one day. If you are doing a strength program and don't feel like you are getting enough work in it probably isn't the programs fault (assuming it is a good program of course), the problem is likely the effort you are putting into it.
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:15 PM   #32
Wisam Saeed
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Re: Strength Program or CF or Both?

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Originally Posted by Jose Soriano View Post
Just want to jump in real quick and point out that sometimes when we ask questions, we don't want answers, we want reassurance.

OP, I'd say you fall into the reassurance category, and I'm not saying this as an attack, I'm saying it so you reconsider what you're really after, in this thread, and in exercises.

I say this because there was a great nugget of wisdom I found on here, and I wish I could credit the person who said it, but I don't remember, or know where it began but;

You don't get stronger from lifting weights, you get stronger from RECOVERING from lifting weights

If you're doing 5-6 days, you're not recovering properly, and the work may actually be hurting you, and some things to remember about Rich Froning are that 1) he's been doing this or a long time, 2) this is his job, and 3) he is a genetic freak that happened to stumble into the perfect field for his mutation, like Dean Karnazes, or Bruce Lee. He played baseball, and was a fireman, and if he'd stayed in either of those careers, he probably would have died unknown, but he happened into a competitive sport to which he was particularly well suited (not to downplay his hard work and dedication, just that sometimes it takes more than that).

Eric here is a good person to listen to, and yeah, it's important to do what works for you, but all of this goes so deep that it's good to have a solid foundation first, and somebody who's been there, done that, and is willing to take a good look at you without your biases. You're looking at year/decade long programs through a 4 month lens, and who knows what your diet, sleep and supplementation look like, where you started, or what your knowledge is.

Finally, if you're doing SS and you think 4 days is too long to rest, you're not doing SS, or at least, you're not doing it right.

We all have fundamental flaws that prevent us from being better -

Taking a look at "what works for me" we find choice supportive bias, and a failure to learn from our mistakes (WFS), which, among other things, shows that if we do the same thing 10 times and it only works 3, we're still more likely to keep trying that same thing because it worked, and more than once, regardless of failure rate.

My personal favorite is the Dunning-Kruger effect (WFS), which is basically, the less we know, the more we think we know.

My point is, don't let yourself get in your own way, and always take a moment to second guess yourself and the reasons behind your choices and conclusions. I've found the little workout notebook with all the weights and numbers is a huge help in getting out of my own way. It's hard to argue with numbers (but it can be done, so don't put too much stock in that either).

Figure out what you're looking for, from this thread and from your exercise. Do you want to feel tired and workout 5-6 days a week, or do you want to get stronger, faster, better? Because one is not necessarily the other, and in fact, probably won't be.
Thanks for your post, it is very informative indeed. I may the Dunning Kruger Effect, its because im very ambitious and I have dreams I want to achieve, someone realizing my own capability after a certain workout compared to other pro athletes bothers me but never puts me down, it keeps me going.

Im not a newbie to the world of sports or working out but im not a pro either, I have lifted before and i'd like to say that my knowledge is good. I read a lot, ask a lot, watch a lot and trained well. 3 days is too little for me, I once went through a phase of doing crossfit 6 days a week and 1 day of active recovery and I was doing fine.

And to answer you, my knowledge is good, I sleep 8 hours a day, I changed a lot in my life for this sport, I quit smoking 8 months ago, my food is 100% healthy and I take protein powder, BCAA, fish oil and multi vitamins as supplements. My goal and what I want is to professionally compete in this game, my end goal is to be a crossfit games athlete even if crossfit has to be my job.

I tried so many sports, and crossfit was the one I enjoyed the most and this is why im ambitious about it.

I may be in a hurry yes, but i'll keep going for how much it needs to take me to get to my goal.

After reading everywhere on different foums, videos and coaches, I really concluded the solution is within yourself, listening to your body and its responses to how you workout and do things and that what works for others might not work for you so you have to do what you find suits u best (of course among what has been tested and proven right)

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Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
3-4x per week 5/3/1 plus 2-3x weekly CF-ish workouts is a good way to go, though you'll want to be smart about what kind of CF workouts you do to make sure they don't interfere with your recovery or make you too sore to do the next day's lifting...i.e. keep most of your metcons in the 8-12 minute range and don't do something like Murph or Karen the day before you squat heavy.

I would recommend doing 5/3/1 on the standard M/Tu/Th/F schedule then doing your CF workouts after your lifts on Tu and F then also on Saturday if you're feeling up to it. As far as gymnastics goes, as long as you're working on skills you can do that kind of stuff pretty much whenever you want...since that would primarily be a neurological adaptation rather than a strength adaptation it's not going to interfere with your lifting. By that I mean you can work on handstands or strict MU transitions or whatever pretty much all you want, but you wouldn't want to do 100x HSPUs or 50 bar MUs the day before you're supposed to press or bench.

Thanks a alot, now thats an answer that makes sense to me, do the 5/3/1 for strength gain and keep my metcons the light kind to not interfere to exhaust my muscles for lifting days.
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Old 04-01-2014, 12:49 AM   #33
William Garrett
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Re: Strength Program or CF or Both?

I have had good luck with Wendler 5/3/1 and sort of picking my workouts from popular sites/boxes that compliment that days lift, not so much cherry picking, but almost strategizing. I kept alot of them short, heavy, and intense. Might of done something in the 15 min range once a week... I structure my squat/DL days on opposite ends of the week to allow for recovery, and If im tired I rest/recover.

I also found that the scheduled 5/10lb jumps quickly got ALOT harder to make, and were sometimes not met once the conditioning level was ramped up signifigantly.

In a nutshell, I have never had Wendler fail me when I wanted it or needed it to work. If its not working, its not the program, its you. My training goals change with the season (mountain biking), so its good to have something thats proven in the offseason.


So, pick a goal, and decide......
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Old 04-01-2014, 01:39 AM   #34
Wisam Saeed
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Re: Strength Program or CF or Both?

and btw guys, that coach who told me I dont need a strength training and that I'll get stronger with crossfit by only doing crossfit....is number 1 in The Open for Asia region named Tanner Shuck....so I dont really know what hes trying to do with this advice, he doesnt want me to get pro with crossfit or what??!!!
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Old 04-01-2014, 04:48 AM   #35
Pedro Farah
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Re: Strength Program or CF or Both?

Eric and William, great advice! Thanks!
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Old 04-01-2014, 08:56 AM   #36
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Strength Program or CF or Both?

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Originally Posted by Wisam Saeed View Post
and btw guys, that coach who told me I dont need a strength training and that I'll get stronger with crossfit by only doing crossfit....is number 1 in The Open for Asia region named Tanner Shuck....so I dont really know what hes trying to do with this advice, he doesnt want me to get pro with crossfit or what??!!!
Being a good athlete doesn't necessarily make someone a good coach or programmer, and there's zero guarantee that his approach would work well for others.
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