CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > Community > Community
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Community Catch all category for CrossFit community discussion.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-28-2008, 09:53 PM   #131
Randy Tarasevich
Affiliate Randy Tarasevich is offline
 
Randy Tarasevich's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Norwich  CT
Posts: 1,632
Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

It's great to see Coach posting here more. Too bad it's over such a sour subject.
__________________
www.sectcrossfit.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 05:07 AM   #132
Josh E Lundgaard
Member Josh E Lundgaard is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beaufort  SC
Posts: 65
Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

I listened to the Cook/Boyle interview last night just before bed - BAD idea. I couldn't sleep I had so many thoughts going through my head!

Thankfully, most of my thoughts have been expressed by others on this board in various ways, many probably more eloquently than I could have mustered myself after a sleepless night. I am especially pleased to see Coach's response.

I would like to add just a couple of thoughts and concerns...

While I fully agree that Mr. Boyle's points were mostly hyperbole and focused on worst-case scenarios (that I will admit may exist somewhere), I am totally aghast that what seems to arise through distilation of their comments is that one major problem is that this information is , well, just OUT THERE! Apparently we should all have to pay money and only learn from certain people (them, perhaps?)!

How Dare They!! I cannot begin to put into words how disgusted this makes me feel. I am a proffessional. I am an active member of the NSCA (sorry, Coach and Ripp). I hold a position where I can influence the fitness education of a large institution. And I share this method with any and all comers, be it a LtColonel wanting to prepare for a fitness assessment or a member of my 11 year old son's football team. I can not believe that men who should be my peers would take this stance.

It is hard NOT to get personal in my response to this. Articles such as this, while they really won't have much impact in the CrossFit world, will have a ripple effect in my world. I will have to spend many hours debunking their points - and I will not sink to their level and debunk based on personal feelings about their desire for market share of their apparent lack of academic ethics that would allow them to speak from their bully pulpit without doing due academic diligence on that of which they speak.

The only sigh of resignation I can give is that often Coach's combative nature, usually evident in attacks such as this, actually can make my job more difficult. That said - he has been right in every response so far - I see no reason why this time will be different. And I owe much to his teachings, and consider him a friend. Mr's Boyle and Cook - not so much. So I will prepare for battle, again.

As for Mr. Boyles comment about kipping - You've GOT to be kidding. Did he really just say that?

What I found interesting was that the general tone of the interview made me feel like Mr. Cook was only saying much of what he was saying to placate his friend, Mr. Boyle, who in his own words "got his anger on". I have a feeling that deep down in a dark and hidden place, Mr. Cook knows that there is truth here - significant truth.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 08:24 AM   #133
Alex Europa
Affiliate Alex Europa is offline
 
Alex Europa's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Waialua  HI
Posts: 1,016
Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

Ok, after spending a very exhausting day on the SC.com forums (yes, I gave in and paid the $1), it seems like the majority of the people there are fairly receptive to some of the concepts of CrossFit, but feel that it has been implemented poorly to the masses. (There are of course many other arguments against CrossFit still out there, but this is the one that I see as potentially the most valid - and one that the CrossFit community can do something about).

This argument is quite easy to quantify due to the numerous videos on YouTube that exhibit exceptionately terrible form - some of these videos are even filmed at affiliates. Now, in my opinion, I think our detractors are a little too concerned about injury, but after watching some of those videos, I can see why they feel the way they do.

While I was there, I believe I was able to make at least a few small dents in their armor. One of the main points that I tried to get across is that CrossFit, Inc. (and CrossFit, the program) cannot - and should not - be held accountable for things that do not happen under their "roof" (literally and figuratively, i.e.: internet domain). People of all disciplines in the gym display dangerous form every day, but this does not in itself mean that bodybuilding is unsafe, nor powerlifting or weightlifting. The same can be said of CrossFit.

However, their point still stands that there really is a lot of bad CrossFitting going on out there. So the question is, how do we fix it? Some will say that it's not our responsibility, that we've all managed to do the right things and strive daily to meet the standard of virtuosity that Coach Glassman expects from each and every one of us, thus others can use their brain just as we did. However, I contend that - to some extent - it is our responsibility to help others where we can. This is especially true of the not so internet savvy crowd or people that truly do not have the capacity to understand the ideas as they are presented on the site. This is not to say that we should go galavanting from gym to gym in search of CrossFitters who can't thruster to save their life and deadlift with rounded backs, but if you see someone at your globo (or base) gym (or affiliate) getting it all wrong, the best course of action may be to politely strike up a conversation (after they are finished of course!) and attempt to establish a line of communication that can be built upon.

I know we can't save everyone, that is not my point. I am merely contending that as the CrossFit community continues to grow, the burden that rests on our shoulders will continue to increase at an exponential rate.

Just my meger $0.01 (you get a discount because I can't seem to make my posts any shorter).

- Alex
__________________
CrossFit Barbarian Fitness / Flickr
"Every man dies. Not every man truly lives."
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 09:06 AM   #134
Chris Moussa
Member Chris Moussa is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Amherst  MA
Posts: 18
Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

Hi Alex,

Thank you and being kind of enough and to see some things that strengthcoach.com does. I also appreciate it that you kept an open mind with everything and did not become bashful. I had train at a crossfit affiliate for about four months and train on my crossfit on my own before that for about 5 months. I am Crossfit Barbell certified (a must for all professionals, does not matter if you like Crossfit or not). I also have visited/trained at another crossfit gym. So i have seen and train at three different Crossfit gyms.

For myself I have been studying a lot of things that the people in the strengthcoach.com do. I have read/watch countless amount of their books/dvds, i have been to a perform better seminar ( a very good hands on 3 days of experience). Although I haven't visited any of their gyms but have seen some clips of stuff that they do, but I plan in the near future to visit some of them.

For myself I currently do not like some of the things Crossfit does and some of things the people at strengthcoach.com does. I am believe that I still need to visit more crossfit gyms/more perform better gyms, and more certs from both until I can give a sound argument that would state negatives and positives of both Crossfit and some strengthcoach gyms.

With that I am one of the few people that has experience in training system in both styles. I agree with some things and disagree with others things that are down in both systems. By the way their is numerous different coaching styles/ training systems on the perform better circuit .

The one thing that annoys on both sides is that people makes comments on something with out experimenting on themselves, training it on others, or fully understanding what someone is doing. You cant understand something without understanding the whole part of the system not just one workout.

Chris
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 09:28 AM   #135
Dave Campbell
Member Dave Campbell is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Albany  NY
Posts: 344
Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Europa View Post
Ok, after spending a very exhausting day on the SC.com forums (yes, I gave in and paid the $1), it seems like the majority of the people there are fairly receptive to some of the concepts of CrossFit, but feel that it has been implemented poorly to the masses. (There are of course many other arguments against CrossFit still out there, but this is the one that I see as potentially the most valid - and one that the CrossFit community can do something about).

This argument is quite easy to quantify due to the numerous videos on YouTube that exhibit exceptionately terrible form - some of these videos are even filmed at affiliates. Now, in my opinion, I think our detractors are a little too concerned about injury, but after watching some of those videos, I can see why they feel the way they do.

While I was there, I believe I was able to make at least a few small dents in their armor. One of the main points that I tried to get across is that CrossFit, Inc. (and CrossFit, the program) cannot - and should not - be held accountable for things that do not happen under their "roof" (literally and figuratively, i.e.: internet domain). People of all disciplines in the gym display dangerous form every day, but this does not in itself mean that bodybuilding is unsafe, nor powerlifting or weightlifting. The same can be said of CrossFit.

However, their point still stands that there really is a lot of bad CrossFitting going on out there. So the question is, how do we fix it? Some will say that it's not our responsibility, that we've all managed to do the right things and strive daily to meet the standard of virtuosity that Coach Glassman expects from each and every one of us, thus others can use their brain just as we did. However, I contend that - to some extent - it is our responsibility to help others where we can. This is especially true of the not so internet savvy crowd or people that truly do not have the capacity to understand the ideas as they are presented on the site. This is not to say that we should go galavanting from gym to gym in search of CrossFitters who can't thruster to save their life and deadlift with rounded backs, but if you see someone at your globo (or base) gym (or affiliate) getting it all wrong, the best course of action may be to politely strike up a conversation (after they are finished of course!) and attempt to establish a line of communication that can be built upon.

I know we can't save everyone, that is not my point. I am merely contending that as the CrossFit community continues to grow, the burden that rests on our shoulders will continue to increase at an exponential rate.

Just my meger $0.01 (you get a discount because I can't seem to make my posts any shorter).

- Alex
I think the standards for qualifying to open a CF affiliate need to be more stringent. Thrusters, KB swings, deadlifts, squats aren't very difficult to learn but the O-lifts require a lot of technical ability to teach others. To think that someone with say, a triathalon background, could attend a 2 day CF certification and open an affiliate the next day is crazy. As crazy as attending a 2-day workshop on karate and opening a dojo the next day. The O-lifts need to be mastered pretty well as those seem to be exercises that get the most attention for CF as "bad form".
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 02:27 PM   #136
Tobias W. Neal
Member Tobias W. Neal is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Colorado Springs  CO
Posts: 257
Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

Just a touch on the above comment...I see many affiliates that do not even do the lifts...they stick to metcons and call it good. Is it CrossFit many on the blogs would contend no but will you still see results sure...just throwin my cents in for good measure...
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2008, 07:51 PM   #137
Stephan Marcella
Member Stephan Marcella is offline
 
Stephan Marcella's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Plantation  FL
Posts: 138
Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

Dave - I have to agree with your post...especially the O-lift comment. I know there has been plenty of chatter about increasing the requirements for affiliation, therefore, I will not post more of the same here.

What I find funny is there are those that feel since they have attended a level 1 cert and 20 years as a meathead that some how qualifies them as an Olympic lifting coach....or at least claim to be. By no means am I an expert at the o-lifts, but I definitely have a passion for them....just my 2 cents!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2008, 09:02 AM   #138
Lincoln Brigham
Member Lincoln Brigham is offline
 
Lincoln Brigham's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Kirkland  WA
Posts: 3,987
Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

I know of videos of a Crossfit certified instructor teaching barbell curls and squats above parallel and advertising Pilates classes. Not every Crossfit instructor is the greatest thing since sliced bread. That said, Crossfit as a group is raising the bar for performance, not lowering it. If Boyle and Cook want to grouse about lousy coaching, they should go take a look at a few of the 17,000 high school football S&C programs.

Last edited by Lincoln Brigham : 10-01-2008 at 09:04 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2008, 08:42 AM   #139
Jason M Struck
Member Jason M Struck is offline
 
Jason M Struck's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: richmond  va
Posts: 893
Re: The Gray Cook/Mike Boyle interview back on the community board please

I did a youtube search-

"Hang Clean"

I only looked at the first page of results. Of the 20+ results, only two were Crossfit Related; Sage in the Garage and OPT. Needless to say, these were not atrocious looking. Now as for the other 90% of results, these are some of my favourites;

All the following are Clean related and safe for family or work, at least with the audio off. I don't know otherwise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSm8XMlo198

61K hits. Apparently there's a jerk too. Not bad, right? But hardly Tommy Kono either. 61,000 hits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4X7HEYlNUw
83K hits

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxpphXuo91Y
significantly less hits

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AFHZ20s2Ho
Mike Boyle's Cleaners
15000 hits.

Looking for snatch related videos, I come across this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N28GoiygCk

our hero, opting for the Crossfit or 'American' swing. If you review his channel, it comes through more clearly than in 'Functional Training for Sports' (which I have owned for a few years and re-read several times) that he wishes he could be a physical therapist. Can't say I blame him. That's why I am going back to school. It's good money. I don't confuse it with training athletes though.

In summation, the guy's a little confused. He's in some weird in between place, where he's not going to hurt his kids, but he's not going to take any risks with them either to give them an edge. I used to eye Coach Glassman suspiciously when he'd say things like "You won't learn how to drive fast without wrecking a couple of times" but in light of examples like this, in a way, I get it now.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mike Boyle and Gray Cook discuss Crossfit Jerry Mobbs Pukie's Bucket 1 09-10-2008 11:28 PM
I Have the Worst Back Squat on this Board Robert Patenge Exercises 21 08-18-2008 10:56 PM
Pittsburgh Cook out at Jay's Jamie J. Skibicki In Search of CrossFitters 10 06-27-2008 07:38 AM
Ideas on how to cook Bok Choi Matthew Townsend Nutrition 4 12-08-2005 03:58 PM
Blend-->Cook-->Eat ...Breakfast, Zone-style Alexander Karatis Nutrition 11 11-02-2005 12:38 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.