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Old 02-03-2009, 07:10 PM   #11
Coach
Founding Father Coach is offline
 
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

Pukey is not a dog.

We've not been sued by the Navy. CrossFit is part of the BUD/S curriculum. In the manuals by name. Same with dozens of other agencies - Municipal, State, Federal, and Foreign.

The articles cited make no mention of a suit against CrossFit. This constitutes a lie.

The Navy and the Marines are not moving away.

We've never advertised any use of CrossFit by any organization anywhere, ever.

Pukey has never been a badge of honor but an ineluctable fact of effective exericse.

The author names two agencies that are NOT using CrossFit and then, in the next sentence, says that they're starting to move away from CrossFit. (WTF, how stupid can someone be?)

I've never said that form is not important (see my piece on virtuosity). We are the world leader in teaching exercise technique.

The author says the NTOA do not (sic, moron go back to high school and retake English) endorse CrossFit. Maybe they ought to read the NTOA Journal which has written in their Journal one of the most complimentary pieces on CF I've seen.

This was written by a half-witted liar. Whoever gives me the original, I'll protect your identity and send you $1,000. (greg@CrossFit.com) Time to build a permanent digital edifice to this incompetent fool's efforts.

This is great for all of us. Don't panic friends. We need more idiots doing this kind of thing. This is better than an endorsement. The real problem would be an endorsement from this Cretin.
 
Old 02-03-2009, 07:15 PM   #12
Kevin Perry
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

meh, Military has always been filled with higher up beaurocrats who think they know everything and look where that has led us.

I doubt ACSM or NSCA would ever endorse Crossfit for the exact reason that it challenges what is accepted versus what is genuine. Hell, college classes don't even endorse Crossfit yet none of them can actually define the methodology.

It's the simple old saying I use with everything else. People are afraid of what they don't understand.
 
Old 02-03-2009, 07:35 PM   #13
Robert D Taylor Jr
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

At the grassroots CF is growing. Look at all the military affiliates, most of them are happening on base. There's one at Dam Neck, you want to bet nobody cool uses it? The Team guys I've spoken with use it. As bad as this is, I see people attempt to make their own watered down WODs for unit PT every day at the base gyms. I haven't heard the results but less than six months ago, Naval Medical Center Portsmouth did a study on it, I believe CFHQ knows about it.
 
Old 02-03-2009, 08:21 PM   #14
David Vessey
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

"contraindicated" - nice to know what this means now.

I got told that proper deadlifts were 'contraindicated', that I should do modified deadlift with near straight legs and no bending of the knees.
We also got told full burpees were 'contraindicated'.

If I ever get sent out in a convoy, can I tell my higher ups that driving around Afghanistan is contraindicated?
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:37 PM   #15
George Mounce
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach View Post
Pukey is not a dog.

We've not been sued by the Navy. CrossFit is part of the BUD/S curriculum. In the manuals by name. Same with dozens of other agencies - Municipal, State, Federal, and Foreign.

The articles cited make no mention of a suit against CrossFit. This constitutes a lie.

The Navy and the Marines are not moving away.

We've never advertised any use of CrossFit by any organization anywhere, ever.

Pukey has never been a badge of honor but an ineluctable fact of effective exericse.

The author names two agencies that are NOT using CrossFit and then, in the next sentence, says that they're starting to move away from CrossFit. (WTF, how stupid can someone be?)

I've never said that form is not important (see my piece on virtuosity). We are the world leader in teaching exercise technique.

The author says the NTOA do not (sic, moron go back to high school and retake English) endorse CrossFit. Maybe they ought to read the NTOA Journal which has written in their Journal one of the most complimentary pieces on CF I've seen.

This was written by a half-witted liar. Whoever gives me the original, I'll protect your identity and send you $1,000. (greg@CrossFit.com) Time to build a permanent digital edifice to this incompetent fool's efforts.

This is great for all of us. Don't panic friends. We need more idiots doing this kind of thing. This is better than an endorsement. The real problem would be an endorsement from this Cretin.
Email has been forwarded in full Mr. Glassman. No need to hide my identity. george.mounce@gmail.com. I was pretty sad to see Air Force fitness centers contemplating not allowing CrossFit.

Last edited by George Mounce : 02-03-2009 at 08:41 PM.
 
Old 02-04-2009, 04:13 AM   #16
Coach
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

-----Original Message-----
From: Conwill, Kristina M Civ USAF AETC 14MDOS/SGOAZ
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:32 AM

Subject: Cross Fit Fitness Program
Importance: High

ALCON,

Looks like CrossFit has been carried to an extreme. I am advised not to
recommend CrossFit at this time until further review by ACSM.

Please understand that any exercise you do whether CrossFit or not can cause
injury if you maintain high intensity and improper form. Knowing your
limits and those limits of the AF members you are teaching is important.
Therefore, when you design a exercise program for unit PT please consider
the physical limitations of those members. As I teach in the PTL course,
the biggest challenge as a PTL is knowing the limitations of the individuals
in unit pt and learning how to make accommodations to the needs of those at
different levels. Any time a individual takes exercise to extreme or begins
to incorporate new exercises into an existing program one must err on the
side of caution. They must understand their own limitations as well. When
we don't, injury/death happens.

In the past I have incorporated a few "basic" CrossFit concepts (but no
contraindicated exercises as suggested below) into programs. Exercises were
based only on functional movements and physical limitations of the members.
At this time I highly encourage you to refrain from CrossFit until further
notice.

-----Original Message-----
From: Muscarella, Carmine A Civ USAF AETC 14FSS/FSVS
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 7:47 AM
To: Conwill, Kristina M Civ USAF AETC 14MDOS/SGOAZ
Cc: Dodson, Linda J Civ USAF AETC 14FSS/DD; Aleman, Jose M LtCol USAF AETC
14FSS/CC
Subject: FW: Cross Fit Fitness Program
Importance: High

Kristina,
Please see this article. I know for a fact that we have PTLs doing CrossFit
with their squadrons. I am all for the concepts as much as the next guy.
But I strongly recommend that we not allow PTLs to take squadrons through
CrossFit unless they are certified CrossFit instructors. And even then, we
need to stress that these are advanced programs and not for beginners or
airmen in the poor fitness category.
I think this article would be a good enough reason to have a mandatory PTL
meeting at our next quarterly Fitness and Sports Council.

Carmine

-----Original Message-----
From: Prudhomme, Terry Civ USAF AETC A1/A1SS
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 6:26 AM
To: AETC/SV Fitness Center Directors
Cc: AETC/SV Sustainment Flight Chiefs; Rutschke, Tom Civ USAF AETC A1/A1SS;
Prudhomme, Terry Civ USAF AETC A1/A1SS
Subject: FW: Cross Fit Fitness Program

FCDs,

FYI. I know several of you have this program ongoing now. This is
information for consideration and may help you to prevent a situation at
your base. Margaret mentions below that this program is under review by the
ACSM.

V/R
Terry

//Signed//
Terry Prudhomme
Force Sustainment Specialist

-----Original Message-----
From: Treland, Margaret A Civ USAF AFSVA AFSVA/SVORF
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 4:06 PM

Subject: FW: Cross Fit Fitness Program

All,

For information only, please forward to your bases. I've also attached an
article about a lawsuit from a sailor.

Thank you, MSgt Skaggs for forwarding the information and concerns about
this program.

Before implementing this program, recommend your base level staffs wait
until the ACSM renders a position on it.

Vr,

//SIGNED//
Margaret Treland, B.S., ACSM H/FD
Chief, Air Force Fitness
HQ AFSVA/SVORF


-----Original Message-----
From: Skaggs, Mike J MSgt USAF ACC ACC/A1SF
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:42 AM
To: Montgomery, Gerald L Civ USAF ACC 55 FSS/FSVS
Subject: FW: Cross Fit Fitness Program

Mr. Montgomery, per our conversation yesterday ACC does not recommend or
support CrossFit being in our facilities. CrossFit is an extreme workout
program that is not for everyone (despite their claims) and goes against the
exercise recommendations of the major certifying bodies in the industry
(Cooper's, ACSM, NSCA). Their founder, Mr. Greg Glassman states that proper
form is not a concern and is overemphasized when it comes to exercise. That
is absolutely not true, because without proper form injuries occur. Not
only do they not emphasize proper form while exercising, a lot of their
exercises are contraindicated (risk outweighs the benefit) and they urge
people to push themselves past their capabilities. Their mascot is Pukey
the Dog and a badge of honor is to meet Pukey meaning you have pushed
yourself to the point of throwing up. This mentality has brought several
lawsuits against CrossFit. (See links).

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/0...ssFit_081608w/

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/22/fa...ness.html?_r=1

We have asked ACSM for a position statement and they are working on it.
Below is an e-mail from NSCA with their take on it. In our annual
conference in San Antonio this past year, we learned the Navy, Army, and
Marines are having issues with CrossFit too.

MSgt Mike Skaggs
Manager Fitness and Sports
HQ ACC/A1SM

-----Original Message-----
From: Gibson, Jill R Civ USAF ACC ACC/A1SF
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 1:45 PM

Subject: FW: Cross Fit Fitness Program

All-
Please read the e-mail traffic below regarding Cross Fit. As a reminder, ACC
continues to not support or endorse this program, and now we see the other
military branches, and national fitness associations doing the same.

V/R,
Jill R. Gibson, GS-12
ACC Fitness and Sports Program Manager

-----Original Message-----
From: Hood, Edward E Civ USAF ACC 4 FSS/FSVS
[mailto:Edward.Hood@seymourjohnson.af.mil]
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 1:24 PM
To: Gibson, Jill R Civ USAF ACC ACC/A1SF; Skaggs, Mike J MSgt USAF ACC
ACC/A1SF
Subject: FW: Cross Fit Fitness Program

Mike and Jill

Below is some information on Cross Fit. I just wanted to pass it along in
case anyone is using it and not aware problems with the program.


EDWARD E HOOD
Fitness Center Director
4th Force Support Squadron
Seymour Johnson AFB, NC 27531

See below about the major issues about the CrossFit program. The AF FPMs
have major reservations about it on a scientific and functional level. The
AF Portal has a link. I want to emphasize that just because the link is on
the AF Portal does not mean that the AF endorses it. Proceed with extreme
caution.

Arletta Eldridge-Thompson MEd
American College of Sports Medicine HFI
Fitness Program Manager YH-2
Seymour Johnson AFB Health and Wellness Center

-----Original Message-----
From: Conway, Patrick T Civ USAF AMC 62 MDS/SGPZ
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:08 PM
To: Grove, Denae Civ USAF AMC 319 MDOS/SGGZ; Davalos, Kevin W Civ USAF AMC
43 AMDS/SGGZ
Subject: FW: Cross Fit

Denae and Kevin,

I was contacted back by NSCA about the Cross Fit program and they are in the
same boat of no support for the program. I am forwarding what Mr Stephenson
of the NSCA stated about it.

Patrick T. Conway, MS
Fitness Program Manager
US Air Force Best Small Base Health and Wellness Center 2007 McChord AFB


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Stephenson [mailto:MStephenson@nsca-lift.org]
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:49 AM
To: Conway, Patrick T Civ USAF AMC 62 MDS/SGPZ; Jay Dawes
Subject: RE: Cross Fit

Patrick,


You are right on with CrossFit. We have our reservations from both a
scientific and functional point of view. As far as the military goes, the
Marine Corps is going away from it and so is the Navy. The Navy has a
lawsuit against them right now. As far as SF, USSOCOM is going away from it
and most of my traveling is to SF Groups around the country. CAG and DEVGRU
do not use CrossFit. CrossFit advertises that most of these communities use
this method but the truth is they are starting to pull away because of the
high injury rate. When it comes to SWAT, I am on the fitness committee for
the National Tactical Officers Association (NTOA) and they do not endorse
CrossFit. There will be some articles coming out this year warning SWAT not
to get caught up in the Crossffit cult.


I will Keep you in the loop on where all this is going. Thanks for your
comments.


Mark D. Stephenson, MS, CSCS,*D, ATC

Tactical Strength and Conditioning

Human Performance Center Director

National Strength and Conditioning Association

1885 Bob Johnson Drive

Colorado Springs, CO 80906

Phone: 719-632-6722 ext. 121 Fax: 719-632-6367

email: mstephenson@nsca-lift.org

website: www.nsca-lift.org www.nsca-lift.org/tsac
 
Old 02-04-2009, 05:20 AM   #17
Coach
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

This is an email I sent minutes ago:

Mark,

Why don't you share with me your reservations about CrossFit from a functional and scientific point of view? I'd be intrigued to see what you've come up with. I'm guessing you don't have any inkling of what constitutes science or functional movement. You might learn how to spell "scientific" while you're researching. I'll put CrossFit's science up against the NSCA's any day - both staff credentials and methodology.

You errorneously state that the Navy has a lawsuit against us. If you don't publicly retract that with apology we're very likely to sue you. It is patently false.

You say that you're on the fitness committee at the NTOA and that they do not endorse CrossFit. Truth is, Sir, their journal on LEO training, The Edge, published a glowing review of CrossFit. Your sitting on their fitness committee does not excuse your ignorance but renders it inexcusable.

You mention two agencies that "do not use CrossFit" and they happen to be the two communities where I'll spend the most time this year out of sixty or seventy whistle-stops.

The US Military has long been and continues to be our largest client. I appreciate that the NSCA would like to break into that market, but lying about competitors is not going to help that process but only serve to further damage the NSCA's reputation within the military.

BTW, a key CrossFit staffer currently deployed with one of the agencies you described is still awaiting an answer from you as to who within your Tactical Strength and Conditioning program has an Spec Ops or Tac Ops experience. It's been six months with no answer.

It won't be hard to show the world including a jury that your email to the Air Force contains flagrant lies and a reckless disregard for the truth motivated entirely by a clumsy and pathetic attempt to garner marketshare in a market where we're currently dominant. You should be ashamed.

Your claim about the high injury rate is another lie. In every one of dozens of military and LEO communities where CF has been impemented it has been shown to be more effective, efficient, and safer than traditional and prior protocols with no exception.

Greg Glassman CEO
CrossFit Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Stephenson [mailto:MStephenson@nsca-lift.org]
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:49 AM
To: Conway, Patrick T Civ USAF AMC 62 MDS/SGPZ; Jay Dawes
Subject: RE: Cross Fit

Patrick,

You are right on with CrossFit. We have our reservations from both a
scientific and functional point of view. As far as the military goes, the
Marine Corps is going away from it and so is the Navy. The Navy has a
lawsuit against them right now. As far as SF, USSOCOM is going away from it
and most of my traveling is to SF Groups around the country. CAG and DEVGRU
do not use CrossFit. CrossFit advertises that most of these communities use
this method but the truth is they are starting to pull away because of the
high injury rate. When it comes to SWAT, I am on the fitness committee for
the National Tactical Officers Association (NTOA) and they do not endorse
CrossFit. There will be some articles coming out this year warning SWAT not
to get caught up in the Crossffit cult.

I will Keep you in the loop on where all this is going. Thanks for your
comments.

Mark D. Stephenson, MS, CSCS,*D, ATC

Tactical Strength and Conditioning

Human Performance Center Director

National Strength and Conditioning Association

1885 Bob Johnson Drive

Colorado Springs, CO 80906

Phone: 719-632-6722 ext. 121 Fax: 719-632-6367

email: mstephenson@nsca-lift.org

website: www.nsca-lift.org www.nsca-lift.org/tsac
 
Old 02-04-2009, 06:37 AM   #18
Frank DiMeo
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

Coach--
First of all,thank you for all you & Lauren have done for the CF community!
We are with you all the way!

I have several other certifications besides CrossFit, but people continually seek me out in this area for CrossFit, period!
They don't give a rip about what else I have hanging on my wall.
We get Special Ops folks in here regularly, and they specifically tell me they do CrossFit at their units.
As for my own self, I am 58 years old and do the WODs consistently.
I have never been stronger or more fit in my life at any age. Let the "so-called experts" chew on that for a while.
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:04 AM   #19
Coach
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

I owe Mark Stephenson an apology for accusing him of misspelling. I was conflating his email with one from a colleague of his that we were made privy to. That was unfair of me.

He's probably a good speller and a terrific liar.
 
Old 02-04-2009, 07:20 AM   #20
Joey Powell
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Re: Military leaning away from CrossFit?

Never be afraid of confrontation....

Proud as can be right now.
 
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