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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 12-04-2007, 12:38 AM   #1
Mirza Besic
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I'm 155lbs, I want to be 190lbs; read inside.

I'm a lean athlete, played soccer my entire life so I have a fast metabolism. I'm one of those people that can eat whatever they want and their body composition changes only to accomodate for the temporary water weight added from the crappy food. But this isn't the point of my post. I'm trying to incorporate CF into a mass building program. Now I'm not your thick dude trying to gain a few pounds because I want to be a 'little' bigger. I'm trying to make a serious muscle composition change in my body by 30ish pounds of pure muscle extra.

My plan consists of a split of 4 days.

day1 Olympic / Heavy upper
day2 Legs / Lower back
day3 Prallate bars
day4 Rings

It's really pointless to go any more detailed than that, I change my program almost every time a little bit, although I keep the 'core' lifts the same. Such as Squat, DL, Clean, Snatch etc...

What's a good rep range for hypertrophy for olympic lifts? I've been trying to stay in the range of 10-12 per set.

Also, I've been eating about 4000-ish calories per day and some people have been telling me that I should be more precise with exactly what I eat and increase my intake on workout days. However; some pretty knowledgable guys have also told me that if I'm trying to gain the type of weight I'm trying to gain that I would be just holding myself back by not stuffing my stomach with food as soon as space was available, regardless of fat gain. Especially since I'm such a hard gainer as far as muscle goes.(granted eating good food still)

Also, have some guys here experienced intense mass size gains from CF + mass gain diet?

What rep range works best for you guys for hypertrophy? What kind of rest times did you use for the heavier lifts such as squat or cleans?

Any other advice is appreciated.

Later~
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Old 12-04-2007, 12:46 AM   #2
Kevin Perry
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Re: I'm 155lbs, I want to be 190lbs; read inside.

If your looking to gain mass, while it can be done on CF I don't think CF is the way to go on this one.

Throw out the metcon and cardio, workout less, lift heavy, eat, rest, repeat.

Good advice on mass gain at performance menu forums.

Although it does come down to calories. Eating more = weight gain. Eat till you puke then eat some more.
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Old 12-04-2007, 01:21 AM   #3
Steven Low
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Re: I'm 155lbs, I want to be 190lbs; read inside.

You want to gain 35 lbs. You need to do a lot of heavy lifting and eat at least 500 more calories per day (if not more) than you are now.

I would suggest Starting Strength first and then maybe transition into some type of intermediate program.

What do your lift numbers look like? Also, how tall are you? If you're under 5'8" it's probably not a good idea to go up to 190 lbs unless you have a large frame..

Here's a couple of the mass gain threads on PMenu that you might want to take a look at wfs:
http://www.performancemenu.com/forum...read.php?t=478
http://www.performancemenu.com/forum...ead.php?t=1811
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Old 12-04-2007, 01:49 AM   #4
Derek Maffett
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Re: I'm 155lbs, I want to be 190lbs; read inside.

Why exactly do you want to gain 35 lbs? More muscle will mean stronger deadlifts, squats, etc... but your paralletes and rings work will get more difficult. What are your goals?
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Old 12-04-2007, 02:30 AM   #5
Andrew G. Greenberg
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Re: I'm 155lbs, I want to be 190lbs; read inside.

Don't do CF. Seriously. Go bo back squat, press, bench, and deadlift and come back in three months. Eat, lift heavy, sleep, repeat.
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Old 12-04-2007, 02:51 AM   #6
Mirza Besic
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Re: I'm 155lbs, I want to be 190lbs; read inside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
You want to gain 35 lbs. You need to do a lot of heavy lifting and eat at least 500 more calories per day (if not more) than you are now.

I would suggest Starting Strength first and then maybe transition into some type of intermediate program.

What do your lift numbers look like? Also, how tall are you? If you're under 5'8" it's probably not a good idea to go up to 190 lbs unless you have a large frame..

Here's a couple of the mass gain threads on PMenu that you might want to take a look at wfs:
http://www.performancemenu.com/forum...read.php?t=478
http://www.performancemenu.com/forum...ead.php?t=1811
So you would suggest just going ball to the wall as far as caloroic intake correct? I don't think a guy with my type of body could gain those type of numbers any other way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Maffett View Post
Why exactly do you want to gain 35 lbs? More muscle will mean stronger deadlifts, squats, etc... but your paralletes and rings work will get more difficult. What are your goals?
It's because I'm limited right now I feel like. I'm 5'11 so at 155 I'm fairly skinny. I feel at this time, the size of my muscle is my limiting factor. For the planch my height is disproportionate to my muscle size thus strenght 'potential'. I feel that at 180-190 I'll be much more size proportionate and although you might think the ring/prallate bar work would be limited I don't think so. This is because I'm 5'11'' and I have pretty short arms. Due to the size of my muscle I can't create enough contraction to keep those legs up, it's just impossible for me. My gains have almost halted over the past 4-5 months as far as strenght moves go. I feel im mostly limited because I'm coming close to maximizing the strenght potential of my muscle at this time.

So I'm thinking of switching it up and trying to gain some muscle to even out my lenghty legs as far as proportions go. You have to remember, top level ringsmen are like 5'3 at 130 RIPPED solid. At 5'11 that's like 180 ripped solid to have roughly the same proportions.

I also was thinking that I could eventually get a solid hold in the straddle planch, after years of training. But I ultimately think that gaining mass first to build upon is more beneficial than gaining little by little. Same line of thinking of gaining mass then cutting, rather than gaining mass little by little to preserve a 6 pac and most likely having to fuss with a wayyyy too strict of diet to gain any serious weight.

Any ideas?

Oh and also I do want to be that thick mofo as well.
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Old 12-04-2007, 03:28 AM   #7
Steven Low
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Re: I'm 155lbs, I want to be 190lbs; read inside.

You're right. Most of the stronger guys that are 5'11" are more or less about 170-180 lbs.. It's still going to be EXTREMELY tough for you to develop a planche at that weight though. You're better off staying near your current weight.. maybe adding about 10 lbs of muscle on your upper body and developing your strength there.. without your legs if your goal is a planche. Adding leg mass is going to make any type of strength moves like planche exponentially harder, so you have to sacrifice at least some type of all around fitness at your height most likely. For example (wfs) this guy is 6'0" 165 lbs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvbLSgWMJec

Also, sorry but thick + this stuff is a no go. Choose one or the other, lol.
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Old 12-04-2007, 03:41 AM   #8
Mirza Besic
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Re: I'm 155lbs, I want to be 190lbs; read inside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
You're right. Most of the stronger guys that are 5'11" are more or less about 170-180 lbs.. It's still going to be EXTREMELY tough for you to develop a planche at that weight though. You're better off staying near your current weight.. maybe adding about 10 lbs of muscle on your upper body and developing your strength there.. without your legs if your goal is a planche. Adding leg mass is going to make any type of strength moves like planche exponentially harder, so you have to sacrifice at least some type of all around fitness at your height most likely. For example (wfs) this guy is 6'0" 165 lbs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvbLSgWMJec

Also, sorry but thick + this stuff is a no go. Choose one or the other, lol.
My friend frank, he's 5'9 at about 185 solid. He's been training almost the exact same as me and he's holding the stradle for about 10 seconds. I have about a 1-2 second hold TOPS. He just has more upper body mass that I don't have, we were dead even untill about advanced tuck planche, at this point is where his additional muscle mass really allowed him to gain some distance on me as far as progress. He already had the foundation upon which to build.
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Old 12-04-2007, 03:45 AM   #9
Jason Lopez-Ota
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Re: I'm 155lbs, I want to be 190lbs; read inside.

Eat a ton. I gained 15lbs by eating a ton. Cookies, 1/4 gallon cartons of milk, and 1/4 gallons of chocolate milk, etc on top of what I normally ate. I was also exercising intensely at the time.
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Old 12-04-2007, 03:52 AM   #10
Steven Low
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Re: I'm 155lbs, I want to be 190lbs; read inside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirza Besic View Post
My friend frank, he's 5'9 at about 185 solid. He's been training almost the exact same as me and he's holding the stradle for about 10 seconds. I have about a 1-2 second hold TOPS. He just has more upper body mass that I don't have, we were dead even untill about advanced tuck planche, at this point is where his additional muscle mass really allowed him to gain some distance on me as far as progress. He already had the foundation upon which to build.
Fact of the matter is your friend is not you. You mentioned that you had short arms which is a HUGE disadvantage when trying to learn the front lever and planche although advantageous with back lever, cross, maltese, and inverted cross.

Upper body mass does help but with each person it is different. You can't say you would be better at a MUCH higher weight depending on how your frame is built with limb lengths, torso biomechanics and such. It's possible you may already be at your optimal weight or very close to it. That's why I would suggest only gaining more or less about 5-15 lbs of muscle mass and retrying to learn from there. If you're still extremely lacking in upper body strength by then (which is highly doubtful), you can keep on adding more if you need to.

Also, people respond much different to training based on their diet, sleep regiment and genetics. If you all had the same everything you might have a case as to why he progressed faster with the planche than just muscle (if muscle was the only underlying factor he should've progressed the faster from the start as opposed to you being similar up to adv. tuck planche).. but you probably don't have all those same attributes. You'll ALWAYS run into major problems if you try to compare yourself with others when working towards these skills so I would suggest just not doing it.
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