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Old 02-24-2012, 01:33 PM   #61
Russell Greene
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom McFarlane View Post


The charity is the point, not some p****** match between HQ and Sportsgrants. If Sportsgrants can run a good event that raises a lot of money, we should all get behind that. If HQ can do the same, we should all get behind that as well.
The issue isn't with Sportsgrants raising money for charity. It's with Sportsgrants trademarking Fight Gone Bad behind CrossFit's back and threatening CrossFit affiliates.

If Sportsgrants want to create their own event that doesn't leech off of the CrossFit community, let them have at it.

And is there any doubt that CrossFit can raise "a lot of money" on its own? Without any public promotion, already 665 affiliates have signed up for the June St. Jude's event.

Last year, the total number of affiliates participating in Fight Gone Bad, after a year of public promotion, only reached around 880.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:26 PM   #62
Coach
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

Quote:
“I've never received any assistance (rowers, judges, phone calls) from HQ, ever!!”


“I'm not defending anyone who resorts to threats, but HQ has done a fair bit of that on their own and driven out great people in the process. Not passing judgement, just calling it as I see it.”


“I'm also a bit skeptical that HQ is overly concerned about the success of my affiliate. HQ is concerned about creating affiliates, period. Again, not passing judgement, just calling it as I see it.”


“I just doubt HQ's motivations are solely to protect affiliates.”


“What has HQ done, specifically, to support affiliates? When we opened our box, we were one of about 2-3 in the area. Now there's at least 15-20. Just stating facts.”.
Phil,

We go way back to the early days of CF Santa Cruz, so I’m going to try to help you make sense of what has happened with FGB by way of an analogy that a good cop like yourself might find useful.

Imagine if I steal your car and change the VIN and then go to the Department of Motor Vehicles and successfully register the car. Understand that doesn’t make it mine. Get that? It’s really that easy. For the record, I’m going to attribute your failure to comprehend as a simple intellectual shortcoming and not as a character flaw. I get where IP is a difficult thing for many to grok.

And whether you get that or not, the courts will. SZ and his attorneys get it and have asked for an out immediately after their first loss in court. It’s not coming.

But forget all of that; it’s not my problem, really, but yours.

Here’s my problem, and it’s near insurmountable. You’ve attributed motives and behaviors to me and staff that make it impossible for us to continue our business relationship. I wouldn’t do business with us as you have described us and I certainly won’t do business with someone who sees nothing but greed in our efforts, and finds little value to the relationship.

The accounting team will cut you a check for $4,000 to cover your total payments to CF Inc. years 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011. At your earliest convenience you can replace your signage and remove related use of the CF name. The termination notice will provide details of our expectations.

I wish you the best of luck and sincerely hope that you’ll find success inside and outside of your gym.

One last thing, I’m calling bull**** on your claim of lots of weak, brand-wrecking, affiliates surrounding your box. I know better even if you don’t. I can name several in close proximity that have worlds to teach you about running a gym and training. I’d have focused my attention on them were I you.
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:54 PM   #63
Philip Mancini Jr.
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach View Post
Phil,

We go way back to the early days of CF Santa Cruz, so Iím going to try to help you make sense of what has happened with FGB by way of an analogy that a good cop like yourself might find useful.

Imagine if I steal your car and change the VIN and then go to the Department of Motor Vehicles and successfully register the car. Understand that doesnít make it mine. Get that? Itís really that easy. For the record, Iím going to attribute your failure to comprehend as a simple intellectual shortcoming and not as a character flaw. I get where IP is a difficult thing for many to grok.

And whether you get that or not, the courts will. SZ and his attorneys get it and have asked for an out immediately after their first loss in court. Itís not coming.

But forget all of that; itís not my problem, really, but yours.

Hereís my problem, and itís near insurmountable. Youíve attributed motives and behaviors to me and staff that make it impossible for us to continue our business relationship. I wouldnít do business with us as you have described us and I certainly wonít do business with someone who sees nothing but greed in our efforts, and finds little value to the relationship.

The accounting team will cut you a check for $4,000 to cover your total payments to CF Inc. years 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011. At your earliest convenience you can replace your signage and remove related use of the CF name. The termination notice will provide details of our expectations.

I wish you the best of luck and sincerely hope that youíll find success inside and outside of your gym.

One last thing, Iím calling bull**** on your claim of lots of weak, brand-wrecking, affiliates surrounding your box. I know better even if you donít. I can name several in close proximity that have worlds to teach you about running a gym and training. Iíd have focused my attention on them were I you.
Greg,

I sincerely apologize if I offended anyone at HQ with my personal opinions. However, I don't feel my actions should have a negative impact on my business partner or the dozens of clients we've coached and trained in the CrossFit methodology over the past few years.

To clarify, I never used the words "weak" or "brand wrecking" in my posts. I understand that you're clearly upset, but how can you clearly judge the effectiveness of my affiliate without ever having seen it? A large majority of how I teach CrossFit comes directly from you and the generous guidance you provided those years ago.

If what I've said throughout these posts is cause for terminating my association with CrossFit, then so be it. If there's something I can say or do to make it right, I'll gladly do so. I believe in the CrossFit methodology and haven't looked back since 2003. Whether I'm allowed to use the trademark or not, I'm still going to advocate on CrossFit's behalf.

With respect,

Phil
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Old 03-02-2012, 04:10 PM   #64
Joey Scafidi
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

Ouch..
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:10 PM   #65
Tom McFarlane
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach View Post
Phil,

We go way back to the early days of CF Santa Cruz, so Iím going to try to help you make sense of what has happened with FGB by way of an analogy that a good cop like yourself might find useful.

Imagine if I steal your car and change the VIN and then go to the Department of Motor Vehicles and successfully register the car. Understand that doesnít make it mine. Get that? Itís really that easy. For the record, Iím going to attribute your failure to comprehend as a simple intellectual shortcoming and not as a character flaw. I get where IP is a difficult thing for many to grok.

And whether you get that or not, the courts will. SZ and his attorneys get it and have asked for an out immediately after their first loss in court. Itís not coming.

But forget all of that; itís not my problem, really, but yours.

Hereís my problem, and itís near insurmountable. Youíve attributed motives and behaviors to me and staff that make it impossible for us to continue our business relationship. I wouldnít do business with us as you have described us and I certainly wonít do business with someone who sees nothing but greed in our efforts, and finds little value to the relationship.

The accounting team will cut you a check for $4,000 to cover your total payments to CF Inc. years 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011. At your earliest convenience you can replace your signage and remove related use of the CF name. The termination notice will provide details of our expectations.

I wish you the best of luck and sincerely hope that youíll find success inside and outside of your gym.

One last thing, Iím calling bull**** on your claim of lots of weak, brand-wrecking, affiliates surrounding your box. I know better even if you donít. I can name several in close proximity that have worlds to teach you about running a gym and training. Iíd have focused my attention on them were I you.


gets popcorn
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:33 PM   #66
Rick Burrell
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Mancini Jr. View Post
Greg,

I sincerely apologize if I offended anyone at HQ with my personal opinions. However, I don't feel my actions should have a negative impact on my business partner or the dozens of clients we've coached and trained in the CrossFit methodology over the past few years.

To clarify, I never used the words "weak" or "brand wrecking" in my posts. I understand that you're clearly upset, but how can you clearly judge the effectiveness of my affiliate without ever having seen it? A large majority of how I teach CrossFit comes directly from you and the generous guidance you provided those years ago.

If what I've said throughout these posts is cause for terminating my association with CrossFit, then so be it. If there's something I can say or do to make it right, I'll gladly do so. I believe in the CrossFit methodology and haven't looked back since 2003. Whether I'm allowed to use the trademark or not, I'm still going to advocate on CrossFit's behalf.

With respect,

Phil
Holy crap, now that is what I call some back-peddling! Phil, with a grain of business acumen you might have considered the impact on your business partner and the members of your affiliate prior to screwing around with a .50cal. Personally, I would have yanked your affiliation just for not having the balls to stand behind your own verbal diarrhea e.g. "Again, not passing judgement, just calling it as I see it.Ē I almost defecated on my own laptop after reading that for the umpteenth time. Anyway, I'm always up for a good ***-kicking, even if it's only online.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:30 PM   #67
Steve Liberati
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

I feel bad for Phil's partner and clients, but I'm glad to see this happen.

He was way out of line.
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Old 03-03-2012, 04:19 PM   #68
Joey Shishineh
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

anyone seen this? (WFS).
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Old 03-03-2012, 05:58 PM   #69
Coach
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

Phil,

Tell you what, Sir, when that check comes tear it up. I’ll let the affiliate-team know that I’ve changed my mind.

Here’s what I want from you:

1. I want you to go to St. Jude’s with staff and me, including our physicians, and come back and reassess your cynicism wrt to our commitment to fighting catastrophic children's' illness.
2. I want you to sit down with the affiliate team and me and then reassess my, our, and their, commitments and efforts relating to the affiliates.
3. Take a tour with me of the affiliates in your vicinity and give a public assessment of what it is that we find in your area – the good, the bad, the ugly.
4. Hear me out personally on the IP issues surrounding FGB and Mr. Fraught in South Africa vis-ŗ-vis CF Inc’s obligations contractual, legal, ethical, and strategic. (Mr. Fraught as you may recall is the gentleman who affiliated and then TM’d CF in South Africa to which you publicly posted that we should have better things to do than to challenge him.)
5. Help me come to believe that you don’t feel like your affiliation is only a convenience to you personally and financially rather than being of significant value.

I’ll arrange to do all of this at your convenience, but promise me you’ll make the effort.

You are a friend for whom I have IMMENSE respect – especially as an LEO and athlete. (I’d send you to law school if I could, however. Never thought I’d ever recommend that to anyone!) By way of introduction, everyone, Phil Mancini is a legendary SWAT Team leader ex of San Jose PD and past winner of the Toughest Cop Alive competition. He is a cop's cop, to be sure.

For the record, I have no dreams for me personally, for my company, for my staff, for the cause of health and fitness globally, for my life’s work and legacy, for my family and staff’s family that doesn’t depend in large part on the success of affiliates everywhere.

When you attribute less than honorable intent to CFHQ you are, in my heart, in my mind, disparaging me personally. Names need not be given. All that is wrong at HQ is my fault and all that is right belongs to staff and affiliates. The affiliate program is an expression of my and staff’s intent, whether we do a great job or a poor one. The only place where we are perfect is in our concern and love for affiliates. The rest is very human. It might help to remember that CF Inc. is not an abstraction but the combined efforts of a lot of really good people – many, the best souls I’ve ever met.

Affiliates, be critical, be cynical, and do so publicly, but leaving the impression that we are crooks or challenging our intent, especially when coupled with hints of not getting your money’s worth, means that the time has come for us to go separate ways. The only way I can guarantee happy customers is to offer the very best that we can and stand willing and ready to remedy the disaffected with a free path to move on without us, even if a refund is required. I’ll have no unhappy customers if I can help it.

My chief expectation of affiliates in our relationship is that they acknowledge the sincerity of our efforts.
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Old 03-03-2012, 07:36 PM   #70
Kevin Bowman
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Re: Who has ownership of FGB?

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Originally Posted by Joey Shishineh View Post
anyone seen this? (WFS).
Thanks! I needed that today.ô
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