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Old 03-23-2014, 10:51 AM   #21
Glenn Plomchok
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Re: Strength Program or CF or Both?

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Originally Posted by Andrew G Parker View Post
I don't have the rich experience and knowledge of these other guys, but as someone relatively new, I understand the desire to do better both with both the strength and conditioning. You want to gain strength and now you also want to do two metcons a day. Some of us, especially when we start seeing results (or just because we enjoy the workout), get inpatient and driven at the expense of health. If you don't allow recovery time (as well as sufficient sleep and good diet), you will sabotage a lot of your efforts. Working harder is not always smarter. More is not always better. Just because you don't feel you need rest, doesn't mean you don't. I think over training and insufficient eating is what wipes most of us newbies out--until we learn better.

I'm glad for a coach that refused to let me go overboard and is somewhat religious about recovery.
Great advice. More is not always better...better is better.
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:26 PM   #22
Omar Mendoza
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Re: Strength Program or CF or Both?

I'd say, do what works for you. There's no one correct answer... The BEST thing you could do is get an experienced coach to asses you and write your programming.

I've been following a strength program and and doing 5+ metcons/week pretty consistently. My C&J went from 185 to 235 in only a few months and my snatch went from 135 to 170, all while hitting met-con's hard. I still feel I'm lacking in strength, but until I stop seeing gains, I'm going to keep hitting met-cons hard every day.

I strongly believe that if you want to maximize your potential in CrossFit, you should have a solid strength or weightlifting program, and you should be working on your metabolic conditioning simultaneously.

Not to mention, if I was to only follow the SS program, I would be bored out of my mind! Not to say that it's not a great program, but I just enjoy the grind of training every day...
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:43 PM   #23
Wisam Saeed
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Re: Strength Program or CF or Both?

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Originally Posted by Omar Mendoza View Post
I'd say, do what works for you. There's no one correct answer... The BEST thing you could do is get an experienced coach to asses you and write your programming.

I've been following a strength program and and doing 5+ metcons/week pretty consistently. My C&J went from 185 to 235 in only a few months and my snatch went from 135 to 170, all while hitting met-con's hard. I still feel I'm lacking in strength, but until I stop seeing gains, I'm going to keep hitting met-cons hard every day.

I strongly believe that if you want to maximize your potential in CrossFit, you should have a solid strength or weightlifting program, and you should be working on your metabolic conditioning simultaneously.

Not to mention, if I was to only follow the SS program, I would be bored out of my mind! Not to say that it's not a great program, but I just enjoy the grind of training every day...
Honestly, what you just said is exactly what I came up with after days of reading blogs and forums, there are tons of different answers and just as you said, there is no correct answer, you do what works best for you and what you enjoy. Because, I, just like you will be bored out of my mind doing just SS alone.
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:21 PM   #24
Mike Doehla
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Re: Strength Program or CF or Both?

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Originally Posted by Omar Mendoza View Post
I'd say, do what works for you. There's no one correct answer... The BEST thing you could do is get an experienced coach to asses you and write your programming.

I've been following a strength program and and doing 5+ metcons/week pretty consistently. My C&J went from 185 to 235 in only a few months and my snatch went from 135 to 170, all while hitting met-con's hard. I still feel I'm lacking in strength, but until I stop seeing gains, I'm going to keep hitting met-cons hard every day.

I strongly believe that if you want to maximize your potential in CrossFit, you should have a solid strength or weightlifting program, and you should be working on your metabolic conditioning simultaneously.

Not to mention, if I was to only follow the SS program, I would be bored out of my mind! Not to say that it's not a great program, but I just enjoy the grind of training every day...
Hey Omar, did you ever get your affiliate going?
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:05 PM   #25
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Strength Program or CF or Both?

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Originally Posted by Wisam Saeed View Post
Honestly, what you just said is exactly what I came up with after days of reading blogs and forums, there are tons of different answers and just as you said, there is no correct answer, you do what works best for you and what you enjoy. Because, I, just like you will be bored out of my mind doing just SS alone.
That's true, but it also doesn't mean you should ignore the advice of people who have (a) actually done these programs and (b) coached/advised plenty of other people who have done these programs.

Something about "learning from others' mistakes instead of insisting on making them all yourself" comes to mind....
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:39 PM   #26
Omar Mendoza
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Re: Strength Program or CF or Both?

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Originally Posted by Mike Doehla View Post
Hey Omar, did you ever get your affiliate going?
Hey Mike! I actually decided that I didn't want the added stress that comes with running a business at this time in my life. For now, my passion lies in coaching athletes. I freakin love it!

If you're ever in LA, come check us out (CrossFit Tough Angels).


I assume you're up and running by now; How's everything working out?
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Old 03-25-2014, 07:12 AM   #27
Dana Rice
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Re: Strength Program or CF or Both?

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Originally Posted by Wisam Saeed View Post
Not only that it just keeps me away a lot from CF, and the idea of me getting away from CF for 6-8 months as a pre-requisite to do better at CF doesnt make sense to me. Thats probably one of the reasons why CFFB was invented.
What do you think the top crossfitters do?

Do you think Rich Fronning is good at CrossFit, because he does WOD's 12 months out the year?

Look, I'm not saying you can't do strength and metcon's simultanously and still make progress. You are a novice, so at this point doing just about anything will work. However - if your goal is to get stronger as quickly as possible, which will make the WOD's easier for you, then focusing on a dedicated strength program for a period of time makes the most sense.

Another program you can look into, which has you lifting 4-5 days a week, and can be combined with crossfit, is 5.3.1. It is more intended for early intermediates, so it is not novice linear progression. Meaning you add weight to the bar every few weeks, instead of every workout - however the slower increases allow for easier recovery if you want to do other stuff like conditioning.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:45 AM   #28
Pedro Farah
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Re: Strength Program or CF or Both?

On that note, what are your opinions on following Wendler's 5/3/1 3 days week, plus 2-3 Crossfit days? Due to my personal time constrains and my Box's MO, my Crossfit days would be randomly focused - could be a lift, metcon or gymnastics focused wod...

I have been doing the same research as Wisam, and would love to get some opinions about how to effectively focus on strength gains while still practicing my metcons and gymnastics.

I'm quite new (and weak) as well.

Thanks
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:58 AM   #29
Eric Montgomery
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Re: Strength Program or CF or Both?

3-4x per week 5/3/1 plus 2-3x weekly CF-ish workouts is a good way to go, though you'll want to be smart about what kind of CF workouts you do to make sure they don't interfere with your recovery or make you too sore to do the next day's lifting...i.e. keep most of your metcons in the 8-12 minute range and don't do something like Murph or Karen the day before you squat heavy.

I would recommend doing 5/3/1 on the standard M/Tu/Th/F schedule then doing your CF workouts after your lifts on Tu and F then also on Saturday if you're feeling up to it. As far as gymnastics goes, as long as you're working on skills you can do that kind of stuff pretty much whenever you want...since that would primarily be a neurological adaptation rather than a strength adaptation it's not going to interfere with your lifting. By that I mean you can work on handstands or strict MU transitions or whatever pretty much all you want, but you wouldn't want to do 100x HSPUs or 50 bar MUs the day before you're supposed to press or bench.
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:01 PM   #30
Jose Soriano
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Re: Strength Program or CF or Both?

Just want to jump in real quick and point out that sometimes when we ask questions, we don't want answers, we want reassurance.

OP, I'd say you fall into the reassurance category, and I'm not saying this as an attack, I'm saying it so you reconsider what you're really after, in this thread, and in exercises.

I say this because there was a great nugget of wisdom I found on here, and I wish I could credit the person who said it, but I don't remember, or know where it began but;

You don't get stronger from lifting weights, you get stronger from RECOVERING from lifting weights

If you're doing 5-6 days, you're not recovering properly, and the work may actually be hurting you, and some things to remember about Rich Froning are that 1) he's been doing this or a long time, 2) this is his job, and 3) he is a genetic freak that happened to stumble into the perfect field for his mutation, like Dean Karnazes, or Bruce Lee. He played baseball, and was a fireman, and if he'd stayed in either of those careers, he probably would have died unknown, but he happened into a competitive sport to which he was particularly well suited (not to downplay his hard work and dedication, just that sometimes it takes more than that).

Eric here is a good person to listen to, and yeah, it's important to do what works for you, but all of this goes so deep that it's good to have a solid foundation first, and somebody who's been there, done that, and is willing to take a good look at you without your biases. You're looking at year/decade long programs through a 4 month lens, and who knows what your diet, sleep and supplementation look like, where you started, or what your knowledge is.

Finally, if you're doing SS and you think 4 days is too long to rest, you're not doing SS, or at least, you're not doing it right.

We all have fundamental flaws that prevent us from being better -

Taking a look at "what works for me" we find choice supportive bias, and a failure to learn from our mistakes (WFS), which, among other things, shows that if we do the same thing 10 times and it only works 3, we're still more likely to keep trying that same thing because it worked, and more than once, regardless of failure rate.

My personal favorite is the Dunning-Kruger effect (WFS), which is basically, the less we know, the more we think we know.

My point is, don't let yourself get in your own way, and always take a moment to second guess yourself and the reasons behind your choices and conclusions. I've found the little workout notebook with all the weights and numbers is a huge help in getting out of my own way. It's hard to argue with numbers (but it can be done, so don't put too much stock in that either).

Figure out what you're looking for, from this thread and from your exercise. Do you want to feel tired and workout 5-6 days a week, or do you want to get stronger, faster, better? Because one is not necessarily the other, and in fact, probably won't be.
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